thumping the tub
Tub-Thumper - 1. A speaker or preacher who for emphasis thumps the pulpit; a violent or declamatory preacher or orator; a ranter. (from This blog will be a combination of reasoned posting somedays and an occasional rant.
Thursday, February 09, 2006
It is staggering how much Orwell got right. Change a couple of locations and all of this is more important than ever. The left is often accused of not having alternative plans to what is going on and although this is untrue I think an important point is mentioned in this little quote (and I wouldn't describe myself as a socialist either....thats not the point...

"Socialist thought has to deal in prediction, but only in broad terms. One often has to aim at objectives which one can only very dimly see. At this moment, for instance, the world is at war and wants peace. Yet the world has no experience of peace, and never has had, unless the Noble Savage once existed. The world wants something which it is dimly aware could exist, but cannot accurately define. This Christmas Day, thousands of men will be bleeding to death in the Russian snows, or drowning in icy waters, or blowing one another to pieces on swampy islands of the Pacific; homeless children will be scrabbling for food among the wreckage of German cities. To make that kind of thing impossible is a good objective. But to say in detail what a peaceful world would be like is a different matter.

Nearly all creators of Utopia have resembled the man who has toothache, and therefore thinks happiness consists in not having toothache. They wanted to produce a perfect society by an endless continuation of something that had only been valuable because it was temporary. The wider course would be to say that there are certain lines along which humanity must move, the grand strategy is mapped out, but detailed prophecy is not our business. Whoever tries to imagine perfection simply reveals his own emptiness."

From the excellent essay Why Socialists Don't Believe in Fun

posted by michael the tubthumper @ 3:10 pm  
  • At 4:24 pm, Blogger R2K said…

  • At 7:59 pm, Anonymous Lily said…

    No! Not the dog! OK.OK. No lurking allowed!

    What's your take on the creation of a Department of Peace? I think this is a step in the right direction, something to consider- I know you are abroad. (not a broad, with dresses...overseas)

    "They" always say that we yell about what we want but we don't know what that looks like or how to get there. THIS perception of the left needs to change. There are some practical things. National health care. Participation in collaborations to reduce greenhouse gasses...there are plenty of tangible things we can point to and we can point to greed and reckless foreign policy for the obstacles.

    Dammit I keep forgetting to link you. I lost it when I changed the blogroll. Have to put you back.

  • At 9:04 pm, Blogger teh l4m3 said…

    Am I a socialist insofar as I support socialistic solutions to the gross problems facing our country that allow for the creation of a baseline standard of living that prevents the smallest possible number of people from falling below it?

    In other words, am I a socialist if I fail to believe that socialism is a panacaea to be applied to every single little ill, as opposed to merely, in conjunction with representative democracy, a better alternative to lassaiz-faire capitalism and rule-by-plutocrat?

  • At 9:45 pm, Blogger Disillusioned kid said…

    Hmmm... "Intriguing" approach to increasing your comment traffic.

    I couldn't think of anything beyond the obvious platitudes to say about the piece you posted. (If you insist it proves once again that Orwell was one of the world's most incisive essayists and a much underrated socialist thinker.)

    The Ministry of Peace thing is another matter. One can see the attraction of the idea. it seems so "nice," rather like Rosemarie Jackowski's war reparations tax. Nobody gets hurt and there's minimal antagonism.

    There are a whole host of issues which would be faced by such a department if it were brought into existence, but it's the logic behind the campaign which most interests me.

    The powers that be will always try and co-opt radical movements and in the UK they've been very succesful at doing so. (Recall that the Labour Party now organising British capitalism originally emerged out of working class radicalism.) A movement which has co-option as its reason d'etre seems a strange proposition therefore. Why set out to be co-opted and rendered ineffective?

    Let's get on with the real task. Challenging and ultimately (hopefully) getting rid of the whole stinking edifice.

  • At 11:06 pm, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    What's your take on the creation of a Department of Peace? I think this is a step in the right direction, something to consider...

    It's an interesting idea, but isn't that the function of the State Department. In maintaining our relations with other nations, peace would seem to be a component of their mission.

    Hmmm...but for the Tubthumper's site, shouldn't we be talking about a Ministry of Peace?

  • At 11:25 pm, Blogger enigma4ever said…

    NO not the Dog..not the lovely dog...okay I hope the lovely dog took a crap on the shooters foot...But hey that is the most creative way to get comments that I have ever seen....It is amazing how accurate Orwell is IS....scary actually....Here in the States Kucinich ( rep from Ohio) he did promote a Dept of Peace when he ran for Prez..I thought it was great idea...but alas it didn't catch on to the nascar-slurping-burping-narrowminded idiots in the US....

    ( there is no nascar in scotland right???please tell me there isn't....)

  • At 11:26 pm, Blogger Left of Center said…

    If it's good enough for Senator Palpatine, it's good enough for me. Once our enemies are crushed there will be peace.

  • At 3:34 am, Anonymous Lily said…

    I don't mean the state department, I mean a Dept of Peace as outlined by the proposed bill.

    Go to Peace Alliance website to read the description.

    Kvatch, its on Lose The Noose, a button.

  • At 3:43 am, Blogger Neil Shakespeare said…

    No experience of peace? Hell, peace will only be achieved when all the other guys (warmongering fuckers that they are) are dead.

  • At 5:48 am, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Careful who you point that gun at. My dog learns by imitation. She dances, sings, worries, answers the phone, slept thru Bush's SOTU, barks at Rumsfeld & just recently figured out how to open locked doors. Can world dominion be bar behind? And I don't know what A peaceful world would be like, but MY peaceful world would be populated with a 100 to 1 dog to human ratio. D.K.

  • At 12:08 pm, Blogger michael the tubthumper said…

    i hadn't seen this dept of peace stuff so will have to give it a closer look before i say something.

    there is no nascar in scotland. there is rallying though.

    DK - my solution for global warming has always been that everyone gets two huskies and a skateboard. this could lead to problems at a certain time of year when all the dogs hits the traffic lights though.

  • At 12:11 pm, Blogger michael the tubthumper said…

    oh and i stole the dog picture from another site but for the life of me i can't remember which one.

    for any animal rights people here.... i don't even own a dog

    no dogs were harmed in the posting of this comment

  • At 1:39 pm, Blogger Keir said…

    Kucinich proposed---back before he was even considering a bid for the presidency---that "peace" should be an "organizing principle" in society. This would be a huge cultural leap.

    Still, one could go further. I am intrigued by parecon as far as the "what do we want" thing goes.

  • At 9:18 am, Blogger GraemeAnfinson said…

    Orwell never ceases to amaze me. Nice post Michael

  • At 10:07 pm, Anonymous rosemarie jackowski said…

    Just dropping by to say, "hello".
    I am an Anti-capitalist but I'm not so sure that I am a Socialist...though, I must confess that I do carry one of those little red cards.

  • At 8:07 am, Blogger michael the tubthumper said…

    hello rosemarie. funny you ended up at this post - this was months ago!

Post a Comment
<< Home
U.S. MONETARY Cost of the War in Iraq - other people are spending too, and the human cost is much higher
(JavaScript Error)
What is Tubthumping and who is doing it?

Name: michael the tubthumper
Home: Glasgow, Scotland
About Me: Tub-Thumper - 1. A speaker or preacher who for emphasis thumps the pulpit; a violent or declamatory preacher or orator; a ranter. This blog will be a combination of reasoned posting somedays and an occasional rant. 28 years old, I write and research for a couple of websites and also do my own stuff.
See my complete profile

Thumping The Tub Video

Image Hosted by

I have made a few short movies. Here are links to free downloads for them all in the order that I made them (as far as I can remember). Please feel free to use, distribute, disagree with, shout at etc etc

  • Praise The Lord and Pass The Ammunition
  • This was a REAL song from World War 2. I was so stunned by it I had to make a movie

  • How Far Is It From Here to Nuremberg
  • This is my attempt at a video for the excellent, if worrying, David Rovics (see links) song

  • What You Like
  • I believe the word for this is "splenetic". Only 20 seconds long.

  • Imperial Measures
  • What is going on in Iraq? Some things you knew, some you didn't. A couple of bits of info are out of date now.

  • Wish You Were Here
  • Wish You Were Here is a 6 minute film about the unprecendted rate of animal extinction we are currently experiencing

  • Gorillas and us
  • I don't like creationism, neither did Douglas Adams

    Recent Thumping
    Older Thumping

  • spinwatch
  • adbusters
  • internet archive
  • art not oil
  • blairwatch
  • bushflash
  • camcorder guerillas
  • corporate watch
  • campaign for press freedom
  • noam chomsky
  • common dreams
  • counterpunch
  • cost of war
  • david rovics
  • democracy now
  • dissident voice
  • the dossier
  • downing street says
  • etims
  • robert fisk
  • food not bombs
  • global research
  • gmwatch
  • impeach blair
  • indybay video
  • killing hope
  • lobbywatch
  • mediachannel
  • medialens
  • mickey z
  • mixed up records
  • george monbiot
  • mark thomas
  • john pilger
  • radio 4 all
  • schnews
  • snow shoe films
  • sourcewatch
  • tom englehardt
  • ukwatch
  • video activist network
  • howard zinn
  • Image Hosted by

    some of the blogs I look at
    Arse of the month

    Image Hosted by

    The inaugural 'Arse of the month' award goes to our very own Scottish First Minister Jack (Joke) McConnell. He seems to spend a lot of his time sucking up to english politicians and yet it appears they don't even know his name. Follow the link to see..

    It's All Gone Scottish

    Image Hosted by

    A list of some other Scottish sites and blogs most of which, if not all, are pro-independence. I don't agree with content on all of them obviously. Some are Scots at home, others abroad.

  • The Scottish Patient
  • Kim Ayres
  • Our Scotland
  • average tosser
  • 1820
  • big stick small carrot
  • J. Arthur MacNumpty
  • World of Jack McConnell
  • The Firefox Chronicles
  • Independence 1st
  • Radio Free Scotland
  • Scots and independent
  • Scottish Independence Guide
  • Small Nation
  • Inveresk Street Ingrate
  • Radical Glasgow
  • Want to Swot?

    Image Hosted by

    If you like this site and think it is time to start getting informed here are a few real favourites of mine that will help you blow away the corporate and government propaganda you are constantly bombarded with. It is added to every so often.

  • politics and the english language
  • Beyond Hope
  • the gore exception
  • your tax dollars at work
  • a cultural chernobyl
  • choose life (not trainspotting)
  • shooting an elephant
  • a war crime within a war crime...
  • the menace of liberal scholarship
  • the modern era of law
  • naming the problem
  • the four ages of sand
  • a news revolution has begun
  • come september
  • money is the cause of poverty
  • countering corporate power
  • Other Stuff

    Who links to me?

    For a DotSCOT Domain!

    Fight Spam! Click Here! Blunt Cogs Image Hosted by Image Hosted by Politics Blog Top Sites Scottish Blogs Blogdust Find Blogs in the Blog Directory Top 100 Scottish Websites
    Free Guestmap from Free Guestmap from


    Get awesome blog templates like this one from website statistics